gamesfairy ([info]gamesfairy) wrote,
@ 2008-09-02 17:39:00
Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend  Next Entry
Yesterday, I decided to set up my SCSI disk subsystem in my main machine again, retiring the old SATA disk I threw in there as a 'temporary measure' which ended up being fairly permanent.
My setup consists of two 18GB, u320, 15k spindle speed drives, and a newly-purchased PERC4 pci-express RAID controller. IMO, it is worth sacrificing the insanely-fast seek time of a single 15k drive for the slightly-slower-but-still-very-fast seek time of a striped array of two 15k drives.

Unfortunately, there are a few issues with this idea.

Firstly, the PERC4 simply doesn't work in my board, or my other pci-express board. Googling about, it seems that these cards are pretty picky, and some people claim that the best way to make them work is to place them in a dell machine, and flash them to the firmware of the LSI megaraid 320-2X, which is apparently the same hardware. I don't have any new dell hardware, but a friend of mine does (thanks Mat!) who has offered to flash the firmware for me, but I'm wondering if I'm happy with depending on such a flaky piece of hardware.

Secondly, one of my 18GB 15k drives has died a death, so at the very least, I'd have to replace it with another 18. I'd be happier buying a single 36 (or even 72) since they've come down in price now, and keeping everything on one disk will give me slightly faster seek times (albeit at the cost of slightly less throughput).

These two things make me very tempted to switch to a totally different subsystem. The way I see it, I've got a few options:

* Hope PERC4 runs in PICE, buy bigger 15k SCSI disk (or possibly two and mirror them).

* Fish in my spares box, pull out a PCIX (not pcie) fakeraid card, set up single drive or striped array, and just live with the PCI bottleneck (at 32/33mhz=133mb/sec).

* Attach an enthusiast-level drive to the onboard SATA controller. This looks like a Raptor or the like, which are apparently blazing drives, despite ahving only a 10k spindle speed. The onboard controller won't do any caching, though, being a weedy little thing, although it should be pretty fast to talk to the rest of the system.

* Sell the PERC4, and buy an PERC5 SAS controller. Whack 512MB or so RAM in it, attach some server-grade super ultra mega fast drives (I'm thinking if the Savvio 2.5" drives) and do it properly.

* Sell the PERC4, say 'screw it', and buy a 32GB SSD. Don't bother with an expensive controller, since it's so stupidly fast to transfer data that caching it isn't as big an issue. Consider buying a proper controller later, when I'm rich, to avoid any CPU hit from my onboard SATA hardware.

My main areas of interest are c# development (compiling from VS, Intellisense, etc) and FPGA synthesis using Xilinx ISE. I think the faster seek time and big cache of a 'proper' controller will really benefit me when I do FPGA stuff.

Any storage gurus reading this blog want to comment?



(8 comments) - (Post a new comment)


[info]the_stony_1
2008-09-02 07:20 pm UTC (link)
I don't think HDD is the limiting factor in even really-big FPGA designs - you'll do better with a big pile of RAM and some hot SMP action. You only need the HDD when it eats all the physical memory and starts thrashing your pagefile instead ;-)

Incidentally I've been meaning to ask you: I'm gonna need some rackmount PCs for work soon. Any tips? I need a couple of workstation-level ones (1U, say 2GB of RAM, 2GHz, 200GB disks) and a server-level one (2U, say 4-8GB of RAM, dual- or quad- 3ish GHZ CPUs and a couple of tera of space). Questions:

1) Anyone to avoid?
2) Anyone particularly good?
3) Anyone making 600mm-deep rackable machines? Not essential but it'd save some space over our 800mm racks.
4) Can you just use them as normal PCs? They're all going to be chatting over a gigabit network but we're not using them as traditional server/client, we need an operator on each with mouse/keyboard/dual monitors.
5) Looks like I'll be raiding eBay for the liquidated stock - any other good places to get from? Price is an issue.

Ta :D

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]gamesfairy
2008-09-02 07:48 pm UTC (link)
Apparently Xilinx's FPGA sw isn't very parallel - Altera's is better, but still not 'great'. I'm got a single dualcore CPU running at the mo, and it's rarely 'fully' utilised.
Memory-wise, though, yeah, I hear what you're saying there. I'm thinking of throwing another 2GB in - bumping it up to 4GB total - while I'm in a spending mood.

Server-wise, I don't really buy server kit at that kind of performance level - I usually hover around the dual-P3 kinda level where stuff is dirt cheap. I'll give my 2 pence, though..

Compaqs annoy the hell out of me sometimes, not half because of their 'CMOS-configuration-program-comes-on-floppy' approach and really bizarre 'generation'-based naming, but they are very widely available and pretty cheap (ebay wise, I can pick up a 3U dual P3 box for the cost of postage). Build wise they're alright, but nothing too special.

Dell machines I've found to be totally awesome, but I haven't had first-hand experience with them since P2-xeon era, when I worked with them. Solid machines.

'Half-depth' racks _do_ exist, though I don't know if you'll be able to find any second hand. I remember seeing some really cute 4U 'half-deep' cases on ebay a while ago, and I recall seeing some adverts for some (new) Dell stuff that was half-depth (so presumably 'really damn tiny').

There's nothing stopping you using them as normal machines, but if you're looking at 1 or 2U you'll be pretty constrained for PCI space (more so if you put a second graphics card adapter in for dualhead). As long as you bear that in mind, you'll be fine.

Oh! And my final word of advice - buy rack rails, and a rack deep enough to accept them.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]the_stony_1
2008-09-03 05:10 am UTC (link)
We have rack shelves (as in 2"ish ally angles that bolt onto the rack inside and support the kit's weight), why rack rails?

Safe to assume Compaq won't get a look in, then!

Dell do look good. £500 for http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=300254075980 is pretty damn good, I reckon, but getting work to approve cash out is a bit of a pain...(someone's on holiday)

Also, what are you supposed to do for cabling? A lot of servers seem to have all the connections on the front, which is fine, but not so helpful if you have rack doors, which we need :-/ The Dell ones seem to have both front and back connectors for a bunch of stuff, which is a Good Thing, but they're not that cheap...

Hnng. Decisions, decisions :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]gamesfairy
2008-09-03 05:38 am UTC (link)
Rails are essential for those situations where you need to add a card/generally want to open the box which is at the bottom of your rack - you can just slide it out and pop the cover (or dells tend to have nice flaps you can open) instead of taking everything out to get to it. Do be wary of how deep the rails are though - my rack is too shallow to take the rails for any of the machines I have rails for. I guess it's less of an issue if you've got shelves for each machine, though. Bear in mind that shelves may reduce the usable space, and you can't just slide thigns out without worrying you'll drop them.
All my rack boxes have all their connections on the back, and the network gear on the front. Most racks will have adjustable 'rails' - I lack the proper terminology, but I mean the bits that the server screws in to - and you can usually move them back until everything fits.

That dell looks awesome :) I've got a friend who may use one in his job - I'll drop him an MSN sometime tomorrow (er, today) and ask him if they're as good as they seem.

The only advice I can give for cables - cableties. Lots of them :D but leave enough slack that you can slide the box out - but not so much that it's tangled.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]wiredwormz
2008-09-03 07:36 am UTC (link)
Rails are an absolute MUST.

We operate around 20 Servers and we simply wouldn't be able to keep the downtime at the levels we do without the proper racking equipment. Obviously disk upgrades can be done on-the-fly because we're operating with RAIDed disks, but if we need to perform any other upgrades for RAM or CPU then the rails mean we can generally do this within just a few minutes.

From our experiences we've not really had any issues with disk configurations of speeds. Some of the Servers had RAIDed 15K drives in them but I really don't think we see the benefit because the Servers have more than enough RAM for what they're doing.

As Stone says you only really see the benefit of the higher speed disks when RAM becomes limited and the disks start to take a hammering.

As for connectivity - it depends on the Vendor - but all our HP kit has very little in the way of connectivity on the front. If I recall correctly they have (at most) a couple of USB ports and a VGA connector. The HP racks are bloody huge though - thankfully we've got plenty of space to accomodate them.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]gamesfairy
2008-09-03 07:53 am UTC (link)
I know what you're saying about RAM - but seriously, the project files alone for this FPGA project are a gigabyte. The synthesis 'suite' (not all of which will be loaded at once) is around the 8 gigabyte mark. If you want, I'll post before-and-after timings of the synthesis procedure :)

(and don't forget that many raid configs will mitigate the fast seek time of 15k spindle disks). Incidentally, when I ran my two 15k u320s, the system felt very responsive.. and that was back when I had ~9GB ram - albeit only at 233mhz.

Thanks for your input though, on both my disk issues and Stones server issues.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


(Anonymous)
2008-09-03 08:11 am UTC (link)
Heh, we don't run anything which requires anywhere NEAR that much RAM, so in your case I guess the disk speeds really are an issue. :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]the_stony_1
2008-09-03 05:04 pm UTC (link)
It's a static (very, very static) architecture so it's not really an issue, but I can see why you'd want them if you wanted to service the boxes frequently. We just have the three PCs and a bunch of other rack-mount stuff so I thought it'd be better to put it all in the rack, is all :)

Thanks for that though, you've been very helpful :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)


(8 comments) - (Post a new comment)

Create an Account
Forgot your login or password?
Login w/ OpenID
English • Español • Deutsch • Русский…